Interview with Donald Miller
Essays — By Jordan Green on July 11, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Donald Miller is the best-selling author of Blue Like Jazz, Searching for God Knows What, Through Painted Deserts and To Own a Dragon. He is currently writing his fifth book, A Million Miles in a Thousand Years, which explores the principles of story-telling in our lives. A feature film is in the works based on Blue Like Jazz, and Don is also in collaboration with the filmmakers behind Nooma for a film series titled Transitus. Don also founded The Mentoring Project (formerly The Belmont Foundation), a non-profit organization which is recruiting ten-thousand mentors through one-thousand church-based mentoring programs.
Don is currently touring with the Obama campaign’s “Faith, Family and Values Tour”, conducting forums in battleground states. On Tuesday, Don spoke in Colorado Springs. We wanted to give him a chance to explain why he made the controversial decision to campaign for Barack Obama.
(Full disclosure: Donald Miller is also the founder of the Burnside Writers Collective, and currently serves as an advisor for us when time allows. He is an invaluable friend and supporter. That said, thoughtful critics, both independent and conservative, have raised some good points in objection to Don’s decision to campaign for Obama. The following questions were drafted by Burnside editors Jordan Green and John Pattison.)
Burnside: Can you lay out your biggest reasons for supporting Barack Obama?
Donald Miller: First off, I know this is an odd thing for somebody in my position to do, to support a candidate for President. But I do feel this candidate is unique. Barack is the only candidate willing to talk about his faith in Jesus. Other candidates are reluctant, but Obama is not. He is the only one who has consistently talked about the cross, about redemption, and about repentance. Many white evangelicals have a misconception about Barack…they believe that because he is a Democrat, he cannot be a Christian. But times have changed, culture has changed, and political parties change. So one of the reasons I support Barack is because he is my Christian brother, and other Christians are rejecting him.
But that has little to do with his candidacy. In short, there are a few issues I agree with Barack on.
Senator Obama is going to move us past the impasse in our cultural war, something I think of as a cultural Vietnam. On the issue of abortion, he is the only candidate who has a plan to reduce the number of abortions. John McCain’s only plan is the same old trick: say that you are pro life and offer no plan at all other than to criminalize abortion. I simply think that plan hasn’t worked, and we have to face that fact and look for other ways to make progress.
I realize this is controversial, that there are many who would rather vote for a pro-life candidate and keep the abortion rate the same, on principle. And like them I believe in the sanctity of life, I simply think we need to begin making progress, and Barack is offering progress. He is also standing up to his own party on the issue and moving the party forward to elevate the issue of the sanctity of life within the Democratic Party. I also see this as progress. I do wish we could end abortion completely, but the Republicans have not spelled out a realistic plan to do so, and until they do, I won’t vote for a candidate who simply throws us a pro-life line and no plan. It seems insincere.
But let me add this: I do wish Obama were pro-life. His plan to reduce the rate of abortion is a great step for the party, but I also wish he would defend the unborn to a greater degree.
However, at this point, in this election, with these two candidates, I think progress will be made with Barack. Not enough progress, but some progress, especially within the Democratic party, who may soften their stand on the sanctity of life.
A personal connection with me regarding Obama involves the initiative he is taking with responsible fatherhood. He has already drawn up legislation to change the welfare state to stop rewarding families whose fathers leave, and is working to change the economic structure so fathers who stay with their families are given tax relief. This has been an age-old problem that was written about in George Gilder‘s book Sexual Suicide. (Gilder’s) book is a Conservative’s economic manifesto, but Barack sees a lot of value in Gilder’s ideas. But because Barack is a Democrat, Conservatives are unable to even consider his ideas.
BWC: A lot of folks view overturning Roe v. Wade as a pipe dream. But electing John McCain could very likely tip the scales of the Supreme Court toward the conservative side, and Roe v. Wade could be overturned. Do you think the impact of Barack Obama’s plans on abortion would outweigh an outright reversal of the Supreme Court’s decision?
Don: If McCain cared about the issue of abortion enough, he would move forward on the issue. He might draft a constitutional amendment that would make abortion specifically unconstitutional, the way George W. Bush talked of doing with gay marriage. George W. Bush could have done something like this when he had majority votes in both houses of Congress.
But I feel like they didn’t touch the issue because it would have cost them politically. I simply do not see McCain’s stand on abortion being as strong as conservatives think it is. He changed his mind on the issue only a few years ago, in fact. I think it’s a ploy to get votes. If McCain were strong on the issue, he would call it murder, saying abortion should be criminalized, and perhaps Cindy McCain would talk about the issue. Sara Palin would talk about how abortion should be criminalized.
Instead, they throw the pro-life line at us and go on doing nothing. It should make conservatives furious, but it doesn’t. It’s like the argument has become a game about racking up rhetorical points, rather than saving lives. I see this as hypocritcal, and I support Obama’s plan to make actual headway on this issue. The future may change this for me, but at this point, I see some hope on the horizon.
BWC: Is there something to be learned from the failures of the Religious Right? For 30 years, they’ve aligned themselves with the Republican party with very little to show…are you concerned your decision to campaign is just a pendulum swing to the Left?
Don: I don’t know that there is little to show. Religious leaders are very powerful, and Republicans cater to them and cannot win without the religious vote. That said, Republicans have pitched us two issues and reduced the Christian worldview to Gay Marriage and Abortion.
They had to do that because their economic policies are Biblically debatable. And occasionally there are battles won on the two fronts they’ve given the white church, but if you are asking if it was worth it to sell the church to the Republican Party, I would say no. Abortion is still legal, and many Democrats oppose gay marriage. So I don’t see the use in staying in this impasse any longer.
BWC: Some church leaders advocate an “Endorse no one, advise everyone” policy. Do you see yourself breaking from this mindset?
Don: I suppose so. I intend to vote for Obama, so I would consider that an endorsement. I feel free to talk about that. I don’t have a cynicism about elected leaders. I think they are human, that The Fall happened to them just like it happened to me. I recently went to Uganda with a diplomat who, because of his rank and power, could start the court system up in the north, and get kids out of prison who should have gotten off with time served. There is so much good that only diplomats can do.
I think it is very fashionable to remain independent right now, but I don’t see the use. I am willing to look uncool to help the first African-American become President, and to have a strong, Christian leader in the White House. Besides, if I were not willing to work alongside somebody, I doubt they’d be calling to ask for my advice. I see this as a historical race, and I want to be willing to take some heat as an early adapter. And there are many early adapters.
Most evangelicals polled will vote for Barack. It is only the very conservative, mostly white suburban churched who are leaning toward McCain. Today on the news I heard a pastor say you could not possibly be a Christian and vote for Barack Obama. I cringed when I heard it, because yesterday in Colorado I met with about thirty African-American pastors who love Jesus and know Jesus, who will be voting for Barack. I wondered what they might think when they hear something like that, an angry white man telling them they do not know Jesus, and that they are going to hell. When we pick up a bullhorn and speak from within our insular communities, without so much as talking to people who come from another perspective, we do a great deal of damage. I don’t want to be a part of that. But I don’t think my endorsement of Barack is quite like that. I am not saying to the church that they do not know Jesus unless they vote for Barack, or that they are going to go to hell or anything. I am simply saying I am voting for Barack, and explaining why.
BWC: Do you see a difference between voting for a candidate and campaigning for a candidate?
Don: I see a difference socially. We consider it patriotic to vote, but unfashionable to campaign. But that doesn’t matter to me right now. I want to be on the right side of history on this one. Ethically, I do not believe it is wrong to campaign. Biblically, I don’t think it’s wrong either. It just doesn’t look cool, that’s all.
Twenty years from now, when my children asked what I did during this historical campaign, I want to tell them that I went out and worked, made calls, went door to door, and was able to stump for Barack. There are many in my parents generation who regret not being able to say that they worked hard during the civil rights movement, and I don’t want to miss this opportunity.
BWC: You’ve mentioned the goal of ending the violent rhetoric of the “Culture War”. While the division of America has been perpetuated by both sides, a statement like “Stop The Culture War” seems more directed at conservatives, and could be viewed as rhetoric in and of itself. How, practically, do we bring about an end to that sort of language? Do you think the values on either side of the culture war are truly in conflict?
Don: I don’t intend that statement toward conservatives alone. I think both sides feel like the other side is the enemy. But I know both sides. And both sides have very good people working hard to do what they feel is right. I think we have to make it clear that because we support one candidate doesn’t mean we hate the other. I don’t hate John McCain. I like him, in fact. But when I do the math, Obama is my candidate.
I hate the negative advertisements just like everybody else. But those advertisements work on the ignorant, and it gets simple thinkers heated up. We just have to have the discipline to be civil. Many of my friends will vote for McCain, and members of my family too. But it doesn’t matter to me. Family comes first, and so do friends. When I’m on my deathbed, Barack Obama and John McCain won’t be there, but my friends and family will. So they come first, and they are more important. I just won’t let myself get too heated about this stuff. It’s not worth it.
BWC: Are Christians participating in the electoral process are being forced to choose “the lesser of two evils”? I don’t mean to say Barack Obama or John McCain are evil, but supporting either side seems to demand a compromise of our beliefs on some level. Maybe our anti-abortion stance supersedes our beliefs on war, and vice versa.
Don: I think this is basically true, but I’m not drawn to the negative tone of that popular phrase. I don’t think John McCain or Barack Obama are evil. I think they are both good men. But the fall happened, and so things here on earth are messy and no leader is going to be perfect until Christ comes back. Until then, we educate ourselves on the issues, do some careful math, and vote for a candidate that we think will govern the best.
Tags: Abortion, Barack Obama, Belmont Foundation, Burnside Writers Collective, Donald Miller, Interview, John Mccain, Presidential Elections
119 Comments
Here’s a question for all of you commentators: where do you stand on the issue of abortion for victims of rape and incest?
To answer Robert’s comments about where I stand on abortion in the issue of rape or incest, you guys probably won’t like this, but I cite Romans 8:28.
Now, before you unleash a firestorm of criticism, sit through your reactions and ask yourself if maybe, just maybe, I know a little about which I speak.
God DOES work ALL things through the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose.
This isn’t about Obama OR McCain, at least it’s not to me. It’s about what we put FIRST and who or what we trust.
Simplistic?
You betcha, but then I am one of those incredibly child-like believers.
Doesn’t mean each one of us has to agree or that God won’t be glorified in what we earnestly try to do in His name.
I say, if you are convicted of something and you are a believer actively walking in the will of God (or stumbling along like the rest of us), then your passionate beliefs about what you think God is leading you to do are not mine to criticize, for I believe He puts those passions in our hearts.
As I have said before and as has Tim, abortion is THE issue…..for me.
Lisa said it very well in her response, too, that while we are in agreement on abortion, it’s not THE issue for her.
Lisa is my sister-in-Christ (whom I’ve never met, btw). If I expect any understanding or acceptance from her, don’t I have to extend the same?????
I think that’s what we’re trying to do here, what Donald Miller is trying to do.
Hopefully, we leave this discussion closer and better for the dialogue than we were when we first started it.
I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this forum and would like to bring attention to another aspect of this complex issue of abortion. Would it not perhaps be a better use of our time and energy to concentrate on pregnancy PREVENTION, rather than what to do after someone gets pregnant? If someone wants an abortion then they didn’t want to get pregnant to begin with,so let’s focus on WHY these women are getting pregnant, and how to decrease unwanted pregnancies. That would mean concentrating on issues that the democratic party is championing, such as poverty, sex education that goes beyond abstinence-only education, etc. If we do not concentrate on social and economic problems, we are merely putting a band-aid on things by banning abortion. Our health care system would not be having the problems that it is having if we focused on PREVENTING disease rather than just how we are going to pay for TREATING preventable diseases. Isn’t that something we can all agree on?
Shea
Good points, Robert and Anonymous.
To Robert, the first thing is to remember that less than 1% of abortions are related to rape or incest. That doesn’t make it any less of an issue to those that are experiencing it, but if America allowed only abortions for rape, incest, or life of the mother, there would be far fewer abortions.
The second thing to remember is that there really is no such thing as an “illegitimate” child. Even though something wrong may have occurred at conception, it is not the child’s fault, and he or she should not have to die for somebody else’s crime. I’m not minimizing rape or incest; I am just saying that if a conceived child is a human life created in God’s image, then it is wrong to kill that child. For any reason.
Now, I realize that as a man I perhaps lack some authority to speak on this subject, so I approach it with humility. Yet, it is vitally important to recognize the personhood of the child; if we start with that, some of these questions will be resolved.
Anonymous, thanks for your concern as well.
I believe that abortion has actually contributed to unplanned pregnancies because it has removed responsibility from men. Abortion made sex without consequences possible, and the implications for our culture are horrendous (as we can see).
In addition, welfare has institutionalized the single parent and (at least for two decades) encouraged single parenting.
Every week, I deal with boys and girls who are being raised without a dad. Many of them are living in deep poverty and have experienced first-hand rejection from the guy who should be their biggest hero.
The implications of this cannot be overstated. Moms are left holding the bag, and the only way to keep money coming into the house is to have more children.
In no way am I blaming abortion and the current welfare system for all of the inner-city’s problems, but it definitely has not contributed to the solution.
The problem with the Democrats’ approach to this — and you are right that they, at least, identify the problems correctly — but the problem is that they insist on repairing the problem without a moral framework. They are unwilling to say that sex outside of marriage is wrong. They are unwilling to say that abortion is wrong. My former Democratic mayor even argued against character education in the schools! (Shortly before he was indicted on charges of perjury himself.)
We are not arguing for a theocracy, but society requires a moral framework to operate.
Also – Lisa, Robert, Douglas, and the rest of you, thanks for the civility in this conversation. We all have strong feelings on this subject, obviously, but I appreciate the common respect.
William Bennett says (quoting Socrates, I think) that dialogue requires candor, intelligence, and good will, three ingredients lacking in today’s political system.
I appreciate the candor, intelligence, and good will in these comments. Thank you!
wow interesting article … and interesting follow up comments as well! I like seeing different Christians perspectives on this issue, especially when we are discussing it outside the usual rhetoric that Christians have become synonymous with. It’s great to hear thoughtful discussion. I have a different opinion that I haven’t yet heard addressed so I thought that I would throw in my two cents just to add additional thoughts … I am a Christian, who does not believe in abortion, but after examination of the issue have politically considered myself to be pro choice. The problem is that I don’t think we have a right to make it illegal. I agree, it is murder. but what concerns me is the fact that people in that situation are often desperate enough to have the procedure done any way it possibly can. This often means that they will have it done in unsafe conditions that cause severe health problems. Aside from that, I also believe that when we as Christians take such a prolife stand politically, it puts us at odds with those who are in this situation. They view christians as the ones standing in the way of their choice to get rid of a baby. And regardless of whether or not we believe they should have that choice, the fact is that Roe vs. Wade isn’t going to be overturned. That is why I believe Christians need to turn away from this issue, and begin to promote pro life issues, not politically but practically. I saw a mega – church billboard recently that said “Considering Abortion? We will adopt your child”. This is the kind of thing we need! rather than politically putting ourselves at odds with people about an issue that has already been settled on by the supreme court, we should be reaching out to those who are considering abortion and helping them. Not shoving the idea that abortion is wrong down their throats, but respecting them, and supporting them regardless of what they choose. It is our responsibility to help them with an alternative to abortion. Basiclly the point is that maybe its time to stop legislating our beliefs, and begin to promote them as a church body. Politics will never change the world. Politicians as Don Miller pointed out are fallen. THe government is fallen. But of course they are a part of our human reality. But its time for people to take into account the fact that if we want change, we should stop creating a political fire storm over issues that won’t be changed, and begin to reach out to people, and promote pro life – from natural conception to natural birth, regardless of what the state legislates or not.
I’ve read a lot of the comments but not all of them… so if this is a repetitive point, my apologies.
Don, my concern is that history has shown us that religious leaders who’ve publicly endorsed politicians nearly always regret it. In fact, I can’t think of a single example of a time it hasn’t backfired– just ask Billy Graham. Or all of the Christians who put their faith on the line for GWB. The problem, in an oversimplified statement, is that you are endorsing a MAN. It seems to me uncomfortably similar to the Israelites begging God for a King to lead and save them. They got what they wanted and we all know how that turned out. Of course, i don’t expect you to blatantly acknowledge a hope that Barack Obama is the savior we need– but it’s an implied expectation reverberating throughout this country. He will fail us. John McCain will fail us. And what happens (a long shot, I realize) if John McCain wins? Do you pack up and go home b/c your endorsed candidate loses? Wouldn’t it be so much more Christlike to know that our agendas and efforts are steady REGARDLESS of the “earthly kings” we serve? I also cannot fathom Jesus himself hitting the campaign trail for either candidate. It’s putting the focus on the wrong place. Tread carefully, Brother.
Quoting Cardinal Rigali:
“We can’t reduce abortions by promoting abortion. . . .
Should this also mean we can’t reduce war by promoting war? If we are opposed to abortion yet still promote abortions, then we should have the intellectual honesty to apply that same logic to war, single parenthood, obesity, being poor, lying, stealing, swearing, smoking, bailing out wall street…and so on.
I am with Mr. Johnson on this one. Well done sir. I was like that other poster who said they were ready to get on and flog himself for being so unhip and unthinking, UNTIL they read your post. But then I remembered Obama’s talk at Planned Parenthood. Glad Mr. Johnson brought that up. Too bad Donald Miller conveniently left out that information about his candidate.
Anonymous stated: “I am a Christian, who does not believe in abortion, but after examination of the issue have politically considered myself to be pro choice. The problem is that I don’t think we have a right to make it illegal.”
If the governing body imposes a speed limit that decides how fast that I drive my car in order to protect me and all others on the road, can they not also decide to impose a penalty on abortion to protect the children in the womb?
And to the other anonymous poster who said stated: “Sex is what brings the young one being aborted, so want to make sex a political agenda then? The pro-life issue is a disrespectful attacks on adults who for whatever reason chose not to continue a pregnancy, and no God has given the power to anyone to overrule that individual right.” You assume that this sex resulting in conception transpires only between adults, not between two teenagers who are unaware of what they are doing and how they are impacting their lives. And what about the “individual right” of the unborn child who is the result of this sex and is aborted? He or she had no say on the sex that conceived them. But according to you, this is not that child’s right; it is only the right of the two “adults.” Is that fair? How did you decide which individual right took precedence when you made this statement?
I want to do things to reduce the number of abortions, but I don’t think most offered solutions will do that. Increasing government programs and transfer payments will not do that.
Removing the goal of making abortion “rare” from the Democratic platform won’t.
Signing a law to undo thirty years of pro-life advances in one day won’t.
Appointing more SCOTUS justices in the mold of Ginsberg won’t.
The church stepping up to help women who need it might.
Personally, I don’t know what to thnk about alot of things going on in our country right now. The one thing I do know, though, is that Jesus calls us to live in the world and be salt and light. The foremost component of that is love and sometimes we as Christians foresake love for self righteousness. We have all sinned and fall very short of the glory of God!! None of us deserves the grace that has been given to us, not one!!!
That being said, I feel like the sanctity of life is a primary component of Christians showing God’s love. Abortion kills babies and it affects the lives of both the women and men involved in them. Pregnancy Centers around the country and working hard to help not only save the lives of these little ones, but also offer counseling and love to the women that are in these situations. They offer that love not only to women that choose to have their child, but also to women that have choosen to abort their child. God doesn’t call us to judge, but to be his hands and feet here in a hurting world. That means scooping up these women that have made that choice and offering them the love and forgiveness that only God can give. My understanding, and I admit it is small, from what I have read is that Obama will try and make it harder for these agencies to be the hands and feet of Jesus to these women. Planned Parenthood would have you hide the truth about what is going on in your body and would like to discredit any agency that wants to show you the truth. This is done through ultrasounds, which are incredible, and through explaining the truth about what happens in an abortion.
I do wish that we would put political agendas aside and someone be big enough to call abortion what it is and put an end to it. Will it still occur? Yes, murder occurs everyday and the government doesn’t make it legal. If we could put the same energy into saving babies that we put into saving our planet or saving endangered animals, we might not be in the situation we are today with millions of babies being killed every year.
Mr. Miller, if you feel that Obama has a heart for the unborn and a desire to end this practice of abortion, then I would love to hear his plan. I would also like him to understand that Planned Parenthood is not the agency to help in that crusade. They are about making money, not about the welfare of the babies or the women they claim to want to help. If he truely desires to help end abortion, then supporting the Crisis Pregnancy Centers in our country would be a wonderful way to start!!
I would ask Mr. Miller if he can produce even one statement from John McCain about “criminalizing abortion.” Does Mr. Miller know that overturning Roe doesn’t “criminalize abortion”?
Has Mr. Miller read this article
by Notre Dame’s Gerald Bradley?
I’d also ask if he can document that McCain changed his views on abortion just a few years ago.
I’d also ask if he can produce even one example of Barack Obama voting against a single restriction to abortion at any stage in a woman’s pregnancy.
I’d also want to ask Mr. Miller about Senator Obama’s promise to sign FOCA as his first order of business in the White House, as well as Obama’s opposition to the (1) Hyde Amendment, (2) the Mexico City Policy, and (3) parental consent and notification laws, to name just a few.
Obama is the most pro-abortion candidate ever nominated for the Presidency of the United States. (I choose my words carefully–tomorrow an article will be published by Princeton’s Robert George arguing this case in detail).
I hope Mr. Miller will do further study on this issue and reconsider his endorsement.
Justin Taylor
Open letter to “Anonymous” re: your comment:
I’ve appreciated the open and honest dialogue on this page, and I’m glad readers have felt free to criticize (or support) Don’s decision.
However, your comment that Barack Obama is not a Christian, and questioning Donald Miller’s faith, is unacceptable to this sort of conversation, so your comment will not be published. Both men’s relationships with God are between them and Jesus Christ, whom they both profess as their Lord and Savior.
Take your ignorant judgments elsewhere, and thanks to everyone who’s kept this conversation so civil!
Jordan Green
I agree with Tim Miller (10/3 8:54am) and want to add to it my 2 cents. Unfortunately, neither the Republicans or the Democrats are treating the diseases, just the symptoms. One of the main reasons, besides abortion, that I am not a Democrat, is that (in general…and this also applies to MANY Repubs) they throw money in the direction of problems in hopes of solving them, without attempting to address the moral problems underlying them (or in some cases, denying that there are any moral problems).
It’s easy to say we’re going to provide welfare, or universal healthcare, or welcome illegal immigrants, or provide abortions as a fundamental right, etc. But when it comes down to it, all we’re saying is: hey, it’s ok to not work, or come here illegally, or have an abortion…we’ll take care of you, and you don’t have to worry about any consequences for your actions.
Reps and Dems both need to have some guts to stand up and tell people that, as Paul put it, “you don’t work…you don’t eat.” Take the money we’re using for welfare, and put it toward job training or creating gov’t infrastructure projects (ala Roosevelt during the Depression). Universal healthcare means everyone gets access to mediocre healthcare, oh, and by the way, if the doctors make a mistake and get sued…guess who fits the bills now? Socialism as a whole is proven to be a failed system…
Tell illegal immigrants we’d love to have them here, but they have to leave and come back in the front door, so that way people who have been trying to get in legally can have the first dibs. In regards to abortion, eliminate the idea of a “free pass” for sex, that we can have it whenever, with whoever, and if anything happens, they get an abortion.
In all these cases, our politicians have told us, “don’t worry about your actions…do what you want, and we’ll clean up after your mess.” We don’t allow people to learn from their mistakes. We have deregulated morality in the name of progress..and what are we left with? The denigration of women as mere sex objects thanks to MTV and pornography (so much for the advances of feminism). Abortions on demand thanks to the so-called “right” of a woman (disregarding the rights of the child…or should I say fetus). Families on welfare consisting of three generations, with no end in sight (because the hardworking taxpayers will pay for their laziness). Illegal immigration sets forth a sense of entitlement to those who’ve come illegally (which usually manifests itself in the second generation), and also throws itself in the face of justice for those who’ve waited to enter legally (and can you imagine what will happen once we create universal healthcare for everyone here illegally?). I could go on.
In the “name of Love” sometimes we don’t do what is loving. Our Father disciplines those who He loves, and we should too. We need to remember that giving others a free pass; whether it’s welfare, immigration, abortion, etc; is not always doing what is best for them…and definately not always good for the rest of us (my taxes are already high enough thanks). My highest ideal would be to get a Morally and fiscally conservative, socailly liberal person into the office. Neither McCain or Obama is this. So here’s to 2012.
Coward and Misinformed, not unlike his Jazz book.
Obama supports partial-birth abortion.
For that alone he must be voted against. With zeal.
Cowardly? You could call Don many things, but considering the comments he’s had on this board, I wouldn’t refer to opposing the majority of the American Church “cowardly”.
If Mr Obama is supportive of abortion rights and does not find abortion morally objectionable, why is he so interested in decreasing the number perfomed. If it is an acceptable practice, why limit it? Perhaps Mr Miller is the one being pandered to when it comes to the abortion issue.
To recapitulate: This talk by Obama about “reducing abortion” is just a short-term marketing strategy. During his entire political career, both in the state legislature and in the U.S. Senate, he has been in the forefront of opposition to any limits on abortion, and even to protection for all infants born alive during abortions. He is a cosponsor of a federal bill that would eliminate virtually all state and federal limits on abortion, including partial-birth abortion, and in fact, said signing this bill would be “the first thing I’d do as president.” He wants federal and state funding of abortion without limitation. Much more on all this here:
http://www.nrlc.org/FOCA/ObamaFOCAarticle.html
this post was helpful to me. donald miller’s comments were helpful. the comments are especially helpful. i’m still woefully undecided, but it’s good to know that while my vote matters, God is still sovereign and i still love Jesus whichever candidate i’m led to choose.
and @Coop’s comment above: Jesus will not be on the ballot for president. are you going to write him in? i understand the sentiment, but acknowledging and participating in our government process doesn’t mean we’re “giving in” to some ultimate authority over their lives; we’re just playing by the rules we’re given while we’re on this earth and in this country. that’s the way God designed it.
Come on people! This isn’t a genuine discussion on abortion without at least one quote from Mother Teresa!
Who wants to go first?
“But I feel that the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion, because it is a war against the child, a direct killing of the innocent child, murder by the mother herself.
And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another? How do we persuade a woman not to have an abortion?” — Mother Teresa
Almost all of the conversation on this has had to do with abortion.
That’s fine and all, but I think many of the Christians supporting Obama see things this way:
If McCain is elected, there’s a chance (let’s say 50-50) Roe v Wade would be overturned.
But it also means the Republican party would still be in power. And whether it’s accurate or not, most people view the last 8 years of Republican rule as disastrous.
The economy is in serious trouble, we’re mired in an unpopular war, the war in Afghanistan has suffered as focus has been moved to Iraq, we’re unpopular the world over, we have a growing tensions with Russia, our national debt has skyrocketed, Osama Bin Laden has not been captured, we’ve done very little to curb our dependence on foreign energy supplies, we’ve lost some civil liberties, changed our system of checks and balances, tortured people, and made no progress on fixing health care or social security.
Whether all these things are the fault of Republicans as a whole or John McCain in particular is certainly debatable, but the fact is Republicans have been in power as these issues have become prominent.
So I think many Christians who are on the fence or supporting Obama are looking at this and saying, “Yeah, abortion is a huge issue. It’s the most important human rights issue. But there are all these issues on the other side, and am I willing to accept four more years of what we’ve gone through so far for the chance Roe v Wade might be overturned?”
Frankly, I think there’s another option here, which is not being involved with either side and doing community work to stop abortion (like working at Christian pregnancy resource centers).
But my point is, this conversation is about more than abortion.
The first document agreed upon by our fledglinng nation states boldly that all men (not e gender-specific term as used) are endowed by their CREATOR with inalienable (that is, cannot be removed or taken from them) right to LIFE…… without THAT right, given by our God and Creator, protected, what matters any attempts to preserve the environment, deal with economic crises, reduce or eliminate war, feed the hungry? If an individual is not alive none of these things matter in the slightest. And THIS is precisely why anyone with a value-set like Mr. Obama’s in regard life should NOT become our Chief Executive. Having rather thoroughly researched his position in regards these issues, this man has demonstrated a very consistent stand on the right of the unborn to be born. At every turn throughout his entire political career he has promoted and/or refused to limit the killing of the unborn. And done NOTHING whatever to deal with anything that could, by any stretch of the imagination, be construed as being pro-life in any capacity. Again, without life, none of the rest of it matters. His political handlers have come up with a very weak way of trying to pawn himself off as being acceptable to the pro-life voters, having realised without these he will never be elected. His feeble talk of reducing abortions (in the face of pledged action to promote them at every turn, including the use of MY money to do so) is simply one more example of his shallow facade of acceptability to garner votes. It appears he has sucked in Mr. Miller to his point of view. I am not impressed. Read about how and why Mr.Obama chose Trinity United church for his “home” church, and about his “conversion”. This thinking is part of the problem with the church in America today… a “religion” of convenience to soothe the soul and present a good front. Mr. Miller would do well to investigate further this man whom he endorses. His radical Marxist/socialist bent is well established, though skillfully screened from public view in the final weeks before Americans have to make their best choice for our president. His record is there, available to any who care to search it out. But he’s been so well packaged and polished by his handlers. What have we heard of his long and involved history with people like Davis, Ayers, Alinsky, Rezko and others of their ilk? He comes by his wholehearted support of abortion honestly. It is part and parcel of his political history. I do sincerely hope it will not become part and parcel of the political history of our culture, as he plainly has promised. Obama is not “standing up to his party” on the issue of abortion. He is pandering to the wilful ignorance of the American voter. His party is well informed and behind his “new rhetoric”, fully assured this rhetoric will be denied by his promised actions. Once more, until a person is born and thus sheltered from a culture that would kill him within the womb, none of the other fine and legitimate promised changes to our society will matter in the slightest. Let us begin with the life we are all given. Without that as a beginning, why go further?
This is something everyone should read. It is an article on the logic of pro-life/Christians who support Obama.
http://theologica.blogspot.com/2008/10/robert-p-george-voting-for-most-extreme.html
For those too lazy to click through, here’s an excerpt:
What kind of America do we want our beloved nation to be? Barack Obama’s America is one in which being human just isn’t enough to warrant care and protection. It is an America where the unborn may legitimately be killed without legal restriction, even by the grisly practice of partial-birth abortion. It is an America where a baby who survives abortion is not even entitled to comfort care as she dies on a stainless steel table or in a soiled linen bin. It is a nation in which some members of the human family are regarded as inferior and others superior in fundamental dignity and rights. In Obama’s America, public policy would make a mockery of the great constitutional principle of the equal protection of the laws. In perhaps the most telling comment made by any candidate in either party in this election year, Senator Obama, when asked by Rick Warren when a baby gets human rights, replied: “that question is above my pay grade.” It was a profoundly disingenuous answer: For even at a state senator’s pay grade, Obama presumed to answer that question with blind certainty. His unspoken answer then, as now, is chilling: human beings have no rights until infancy—and if they are unwanted survivors of attempted abortions, not even then.
In the end, the efforts of Obama’s apologists to depict their man as the true pro-life candidate that Catholics and Evangelicals may and even should vote for, doesn’t even amount to a nice try. Voting for the most extreme pro-abortion political candidate in American history is not the way to save unborn babies.
Jordan,
You critiqued someone for questioning Obama and Millers’ faiths, calling it judgmental.
I wonder how you might respond to a rational, coherent argument showing how Obama’s faith is in fact NOT Christian. For example, this article:
http://www.conversantlife.com/politics/is-barack-obama-really-a-christian
ndmb
No, that article says he’s not Evangelical.
Last I checked, you didn’t have to understand the Nicene Creed or believe in Biblical inerrancy. You just had to follow Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior.
That might be a fundamental difference here, but don’t go confusing the two…claiming your “Christianity” depends on all sorts of theological rules outside of merely accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior turns in a mess of Evangelical legalism.
And either way, Barack Obama’s expression of faith is certainly more than I hear from John McCain!
What is with you people?
I don’t think you should necessarily vote for Barack Obama. But are Christians that blinded by the Republican Party? Why not put both candidates up to this sort of scrutiny?
It’s awful how divisive this election is– especially among believers. The truth is, we see the issues exactly as we WANT to see them– few have wrestled from point A to Z and come out the other end with new or different thoughts on the candidates and their positions. Ironically, my Jewish boss (whom I love) said she can’t stand Sarah Palin and finds it disgusting how Republicans are always talking about faith… to which I laughingly pointed out that McCain is by far the least outspoken about any sort of faith so maybe she should vote for him. She stammered about how it’s somehow just “different”. Okay. And to those who feel justified in voting for Obama because he’s some choose-your-own-version of a fellow believer, even that is a slippery slope. Did these same kind folks rush to vote for Bush when he was clearly the one most articulating his faith in Christ? Do you still lift and support him because he “shares our faith?” I’m not throwing a punch here, I’m just suggesting this whole “discussion” will never produce valuable conclusions because we see what we want to see.
Whether it’s us venting on this blog, or Don Miller traveling around on the campaign trail, or Pat Robertson spouting off about whatever, we are all taking on the role of claiming we know how God would vote. Of course, that’s not a blatant claim but it’s implied– who’s going to get this worked up without some belief that we’re on God’s side in our beliefs? Meanwhile, when I look around, I don’t see Jesus hanging around these discussions. I think he got bored a left a long time ago. Oh wait. Just a minute. Is that–? Yep. There he is. He’s out on the street corner tending to the thirsty. Excuse me. What am I do sitting here?
Well said.
Wow. I have read through many of these comments and many issues have been debated. I do not claim to be any sort of political person but I do love the truth of Scripture very much. Our day in age loves to be relative. Many times we shy away from the truth because it’s against the grain or we will be called fools by the world. My allegiance is with Christ and no other. With that in mind I hope to humbly address a couple of the things talked about from a biblical standpoint. “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16).
1. Abortion – “For You formed my inward parts; You knitted me together in my mother’s womb” (Psalm 139:13). God creates life and knits us together while in our mother’s womb. That is life and killing of such precious life would be murder.
2. Gay Marriage – “each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband” (1 Corinthians 7:2b). I would love to go into that passage deeper b\c it is referring to sexual immorality. “For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error” (Romans 1:26-27).
3, The poor – Oh how I wish we the church would give and love the poor as Jesus commanded us to do. If you are not a regular attender of a church or a regular giver, start. Give joyful as we are commanded to do in Scripture. “Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will repay him for his deed” (Proverbs 19:17). The Proverbs have much to say about the poor and giving generously. Matthew 6:1-4 are also great words from Jesus about giving to the needy. Church we need to step up in this area. We need to be givers and sacrificial givers. I confess I lack in this area and need to be more gracious with the money God has given to me. We are all without excuse, remember the poor widow in Mark? “And a poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which make a penny” (Mark 12:42). Jesus goes on to say she gave more than everybody b\c she gave what she had and not out of her surplus. That’s convicting.
4. War – What a tough subject to talk about. War is not something that has affected me like it has a lot of people. I so grateful for those who have fought for our freedom and continue to do so. I don’t think war is opposed to the Bible. Much war took place in the Old Testament and war will take place before Jesus returns. Exodus 15:3 says, “The LORD is a man of war; the LORD is His name.” I bring up war b\c one lady mentioned it on the same level as abortion. My only thought is signing up for the armed forces is a choice and you know there is a risk of going to war. There is no choice for the baby in an abortion. But once again I humbly talk about this issue b\c it is not an easy one.
5. The Death Penalty – “But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life” (Exodus 21:23a). Yes there are flaws in the justice system b\c it is run by imperfect, sinful men like all of us but the Bible does speak of life for life.
Well I know this is short and probably not as sound as it needs to be but I challenge you to look thoroughly at Scripture. Hebrews 13:1-5 says, “Let brotherly love continue. Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. Remember those who are in prison, though in prison with them, and those who are mistreated, since you also are in the body. Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous. Keep your life free from the love of money, and be content with what you have, for He has said, ‘I will never leave you nor forsake you’.” Christains this is our comfort. While things are crazy in this world b\c of sin, God never changes. “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever” (Hebrews 13:8).
Thank you for your anonymous confessions, anonymous.
I guess my question is, why are we having to pick and choose between poor people, war and unborn children? why not support a candidate who stands for ALL Biblical principles. And if there isn’t one, then don’t vote. Don’t let your faith and ideals be manipulated by political parties who throw you one or two bones and expect you to sell out your principles.