Comments on: “Ultimately, We Believe In A More Loving Church” http://burnsidewriters.com/2009/10/06/we-believe-in-a-more-loving-church/ Thu, 11 Mar 2010 05:07:39 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Judy http://burnsidewriters.com/2009/10/06/we-believe-in-a-more-loving-church/comment-page-1/#comment-12486 Judy Sun, 11 Oct 2009 20:12:44 +0000 http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=7106#comment-12486 Thanks, Kathleen, for your willingness to learn and understand...about sexual orientation...about scripture interpretation...about Gay Christians! "Out" or "in the closet," we are EVERYWHERE - AND WE LOVE JESUS PASSIONATELY! Blessings to you, sister!!! Thanks, Kathleen, for your willingness to learn and understand…about sexual orientation…about scripture interpretation…about Gay Christians! “Out” or “in the closet,” we are EVERYWHERE – AND WE LOVE JESUS PASSIONATELY! Blessings to you, sister!!!

]]> By: Ryan M. http://burnsidewriters.com/2009/10/06/we-believe-in-a-more-loving-church/comment-page-1/#comment-12346 Ryan M. Wed, 07 Oct 2009 14:07:24 +0000 http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=7106#comment-12346 A thought-provoking interview. Perhaps it's time for Christianity to embrace an authentic and workable ideal for all people: being as celibate as possible outside of loving, monogamous relationships -- most especially marriage. If 15% of Christian males and 5% of Christian women are gay, lesbian, or bisexual, this would be 200 million Christians. It makes no sense to run them all out of church nor to assume they are all going to Hell. On the other hand, tolerating promiscuity and open relationships and things like that makes no sense either. All Christians, no matter what their orientation, should be encouraged toward the ideal of monogamous love. It is those who don't believe in that ideal who are not truly Christians. One thing more: as many as 40% of males experiment with gay sex before marriage and then move on. The Church has a vital duty to them as well, to ensure they stay on the path to a good, loving, and monogamous heterosexual marriage. If the Church simply embraces homosexuality, it might help lead many of them astray. I respect Justin's point about gay guys who get married to women. This kind of deception seems to me to be very un-Christian, even evil. As straight Christians treat gay and lesbian Christians with dignity and include them in a body of Christ, affirming their relationships -- this seems like the better road than the road Christianity has been on in the past. Seems like Justin Lee has worked out a lot of important issues, and is providing a great service for as many as 200 million Christians who may need it. Seems like a brother in Christ to me, and a good Christian leader. A thought-provoking interview. Perhaps it’s time for Christianity to embrace an authentic and workable ideal for all people: being as celibate as possible outside of loving, monogamous relationships — most especially marriage.

If 15% of Christian males and 5% of Christian women are gay, lesbian, or bisexual, this would be 200 million Christians. It makes no sense to run them all out of church nor to assume they are all going to Hell.

On the other hand, tolerating promiscuity and open relationships and things like that makes no sense either. All Christians, no matter what their orientation, should be encouraged toward the ideal of monogamous love. It is those who don’t believe in that ideal who are not truly Christians.

One thing more: as many as 40% of males experiment with gay sex before marriage and then move on. The Church has a vital duty to them as well, to ensure they stay on the path to a good, loving, and monogamous heterosexual marriage. If the Church simply embraces homosexuality, it might help lead many of them astray.

I respect Justin’s point about gay guys who get married to women. This kind of deception seems to me to be very un-Christian, even evil. As straight Christians treat gay and lesbian Christians with dignity and include them in a body of Christ, affirming their relationships — this seems like the better road than the road Christianity has been on in the past.

Seems like Justin Lee has worked out a lot of important issues, and is providing a great service for as many as 200 million Christians who may need it. Seems like a brother in Christ to me, and a good Christian leader.

]]> By: Terri http://burnsidewriters.com/2009/10/06/we-believe-in-a-more-loving-church/comment-page-1/#comment-12336 Terri Wed, 07 Oct 2009 01:17:21 +0000 http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=7106#comment-12336 I think this issue will confuse me until the day I die. My mother left my dad when I was five years old for another woman. She said she was young when she had us kids and didn't know then that she was lesbian. She dated several woman after that and eventually fall in love with and lived with a woman for 10 years. Then the Holy Spirit convicted her of her lifestyle. She repented - it wasn't easy because her gay and lesbian friends tried to tell her it was ok with God. But she felt a deep conviction - so she repented and became born-again, left the woman she was living with, and underwent some therapy. She eventually met a man, fall in love, and married him. My mom use to tell me she was born lesbian and couldn't do anything about it. Now she says her eyes are open and she was deceived. She enjoys a wonderful relationship with God now. So why do people say change is not possible? And why would the Holy Spirit convict my mom and not others in the same manner? And if same-sex couples are ok in the eyes of God, do they have to adhere to the same principles as opposite-sex couples (no sex before marriage, etc)? Like I said, this will always confuse me. I am grateful for my mom's experience for two reasons. One - I lived with her and her wife for awhile and saw that they were a normal couple (there are some strange ideas floating around what it is like in a same-sex couple household). And two - because I have seen the power of the Holy Spirit to change just about anything. God Bless us all as we try to figure this out! I think this issue will confuse me until the day I die. My mother left my dad when I was five years old for another woman. She said she was young when she had us kids and didn’t know then that she was lesbian. She dated several woman after that and eventually fall in love with and lived with a woman for 10 years. Then the Holy Spirit convicted her of her lifestyle. She repented – it wasn’t easy because her gay and lesbian friends tried to tell her it was ok with God. But she felt a deep conviction – so she repented and became born-again, left the woman she was living with, and underwent some therapy. She eventually met a man, fall in love, and married him.

My mom use to tell me she was born lesbian and couldn’t do anything about it. Now she says her eyes are open and she was deceived. She enjoys a wonderful relationship with God now.

So why do people say change is not possible? And why would the Holy Spirit convict my mom and not others in the same manner? And if same-sex couples are ok in the eyes of God, do they have to adhere to the same principles as opposite-sex couples (no sex before marriage, etc)?

Like I said, this will always confuse me. I am grateful for my mom’s experience for two reasons. One – I lived with her and her wife for awhile and saw that they were a normal couple (there are some strange ideas floating around what it is like in a same-sex couple household). And two – because I have seen the power of the Holy Spirit to change just about anything.

God Bless us all as we try to figure this out!

]]> By: New Guy Portland http://burnsidewriters.com/2009/10/06/we-believe-in-a-more-loving-church/comment-page-1/#comment-12325 New Guy Portland Tue, 06 Oct 2009 20:14:44 +0000 http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=7106#comment-12325 Thank you for this wonderful article. GCN is an amazing community and truly reflects God's heart for all people. Should the church as a whole love the same way GCN does, we would all be in a much better place. Thank you Justin and Nate. Look forward to seeing you both in TN! Thank you for this wonderful article. GCN is an amazing community and truly reflects God’s heart for all people. Should the church as a whole love the same way GCN does, we would all be in a much better place. Thank you Justin and Nate. Look forward to seeing you both in TN!

]]> By: David http://burnsidewriters.com/2009/10/06/we-believe-in-a-more-loving-church/comment-page-1/#comment-12321 David Tue, 06 Oct 2009 18:11:43 +0000 http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=7106#comment-12321 John, Agreed... those that are "struggling" are the ones MOST hurt by the Church. But in the words of a famous preacher... "The Christian Army is the ONLY Army that kills its wounded!" John,
Agreed… those that are “struggling” are the ones MOST hurt by the Church. But in the words of a famous preacher… “The Christian Army is the ONLY Army that kills its wounded!”

]]> By: EmilyTimbol http://burnsidewriters.com/2009/10/06/we-believe-in-a-more-loving-church/comment-page-1/#comment-12315 EmilyTimbol Tue, 06 Oct 2009 14:20:10 +0000 http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=7106#comment-12315 Thanks for this, as someone who recently has found herself surrounded by a network of close gay friends, it's great to have resources for me to use to better understand them. The GCN site, their documentary, and Andrew Marin's book, "Love is an Orientation" are all great places to start for anyone struggling to understand how someone can claim to be "gay" and "Christian." Thanks for this, as someone who recently has found herself surrounded by a network of close gay friends, it’s great to have resources for me to use to better understand them. The GCN site, their documentary, and Andrew Marin’s book, “Love is an Orientation” are all great places to start for anyone struggling to understand how someone can claim to be “gay” and “Christian.”

]]> By: Matthew Robbins http://burnsidewriters.com/2009/10/06/we-believe-in-a-more-loving-church/comment-page-1/#comment-12313 Matthew Robbins Tue, 06 Oct 2009 13:46:02 +0000 http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=7106#comment-12313 John, Great interview, man. Some great stuff to think about. The issue is so complex, even if you believe the Bible clearly states that homosexuality is a sin, which I do. That doesn't make the application of that any more simple, and my heart goes out to people who are struggling with this. I love the heart for Christ that clearly comes through here, though, and the work they're doing is important. John,

Great interview, man. Some great stuff to think about. The issue is so complex, even if you believe the Bible clearly states that homosexuality is a sin, which I do. That doesn’t make the application of that any more simple, and my heart goes out to people who are struggling with this. I love the heart for Christ that clearly comes through here, though, and the work they’re doing is important.

]]> By: John Wofford http://burnsidewriters.com/2009/10/06/we-believe-in-a-more-loving-church/comment-page-1/#comment-12311 John Wofford Tue, 06 Oct 2009 13:18:26 +0000 http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=7106#comment-12311 Kathleen: Justin and Nate are two of my heroes. I absolutely love these guys to death; not known them very long, and it's cool to meet people so courageous. John Kathleen:

Justin and Nate are two of my heroes. I absolutely love these guys to death; not known them very long, and it’s cool to meet people so courageous.

John

]]> By: Kathleen http://burnsidewriters.com/2009/10/06/we-believe-in-a-more-loving-church/comment-page-1/#comment-12309 Kathleen Tue, 06 Oct 2009 12:53:30 +0000 http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=7106#comment-12309 Thanks for this interview. I'm now interested in checking out the gcn website and learning more about the two (Side A/Side B) perspectives. As a traditionally-raised, straight evangelical, I haven't gotten much exposure to gay Christian perspectives and am grateful for this opportunity to become more educated on the subject. Thanks, Burnside, for all the exposure to such varied Christian perspectives. And thanks to Justin and Nate for your courage and honesty in this ministry. Blessings. Thanks for this interview. I’m now interested in checking out the gcn website and learning more about the two (Side A/Side B) perspectives. As a traditionally-raised, straight evangelical, I haven’t gotten much exposure to gay Christian perspectives and am grateful for this opportunity to become more educated on the subject. Thanks, Burnside, for all the exposure to such varied Christian perspectives. And thanks to Justin and Nate for your courage and honesty in this ministry. Blessings.

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