The Value of Ecumenism…Or At Least of “Getting Along”
Essays, Featured — By Richard Dahlstrom on January 6, 2010 at 8:16 am
The school where I’m teaching this week is in the Bavarian region of Germany, a predominantly Catholic part of the country in contrast to the prevalence of Protestantism in the North. Both Protestant and Catholic claim to follow Jesus and declare without hesitation that “Jesus is Lord”. The meaning of the declaration, though, was sorely tested between the late 1920s and the end of WWII in 1945, as Hitler rose to power by blending “God Words” with a call to nationalism in order to revive both faith and state. That he rose without substantive resistance in spite of his unabashed disdain for both the God of the Old Testament, and all Jews, is a study in itself, but not the point of this post.
My interest resides in those few who DID resist, because a careful look at the players reveals that they were thrown together from North and South, Catholic and Protestant, united in their conviction that actively standing against the raging tide of darkness was essential. There was of course, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the Protestant Pastor. And behind the scenes, when the training of pastors needed to go underground, the non-institutional ’seminary’ led by Bonhoeffer was supported and hosted by a rich Prussian Heiress named Ruth Von Kleist. Bonhoeffer would eventually have a profound influence of some Catholics in the south who were part of a small, non-violent resistance movement consisting of young adults called “The White Rose”. In addition, the Catholic community would influence Bonhoeffer, offering him hospitality and fellowship at a monastery during his days in Munich. Bonhoeffer would write during those days that he was humbled by their magnanimous and generous spirit, which led to his own musings on the need to work hard at recovering the unity of Christ’s body.
Another profound influence for the “White Rose” was the Catholic theologian, Carl Muth. His publishing work had been destroyed by the Reich, but he continued to write, “in exile” in his small home on the outskirts of Munich, where these young people (made up of both Catholics and Protestants) came to glean from his wisdom, study, and find shelter in the midst of their own storms. And who most profoundly influenced the Catholic Muth? Protestant Existentialist philosopher Soren Kierkegaard.
Lessons learned? I’m increasingly convinced that the true church neither resides within particular institutional walls, nor values much of what passes for theological discourse. Within the various institutions, there will be those few who are passionate for “doing justice”, “loving mercy”, and “walking humbly with God”. They’ll also be intent on the pursuit of “love from a pure heart, with a good conscience and a sincere faith”. I say this because, while Catholics and Protestants in the established church were carrying on the “very vital” conversations about the nature of transubstantiation, and arguing about the role the human will plays in our salvation, six million Jews, along with thousands of Gypsies, mentally ill, physically deformed, and homosexuals, were mysteriously disappearing from the country, ultimately to be shot, gassed, or burnt in ovens. Hitler didn’t give a damn about the established church because they collectively cowered under his threats, allowing themselves to be pushed into pietist irrelevance. It was the others, the ecumenists residing on the margins, who were a threat to his house of cards.
Thank God there were those few who set aside the “morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language…” (I Timothy 6:4), choosing instead to stand for what matters. Bonhoeffer, Muth, Ruth Von Kleist, Hans and Sophie School are the people I point to as my heroes, and they’re Protestants, and Catholics.
I pray to God that we learn from this because I see similarly destructive ‘in fighting’ unfolding in this age between the neo-Calvinists and the Emergent church. But when darkness covers the world, I’m confident that there’ll be a few who will stop fighting each other long enough to stand together for what matters, and I pray I’ll be counted among them.
22 Comments
Just as a bit of practical application in what you’re saying, the Benedictine monastery in Ettal (a small town near Garmisch) has a plaque dedicated in memory of two men who stood against Hitler. One was a Catholic priest; the other is Dietrich Bonhoeffer.
I have become confused by the word ecumenism. Sometimes, it is used to refer to interfaithism (that is, the belief that Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism all are valid ways to God). Sometimes, as in this article, it seems to refer to variants of Christianity.
While I certainly agree that unity among Christians is valuable and and largely missing, I see the former definition/use of the word as a negative thing. I have all kinds of respect for non-Christian people. But I don’t respect the faith systems themselves.
But what if those faith systems were working together to defeat some type of evil, like in the case of this story above? While no, I do not believe all roads lead to God, I also don’t think that means just because someone’s faith is “wrong”, then all their actions are immediatley devalued of any good. All truth is God’s truth.
Another example of this I can think of is the case of what happened recently in Liberia, which I learned about in the documentary “Pray the Devil Back to Hell” where the Christian and Muslim women of the country banded together to pray, protest, and eventually succeed in overthrowing the evil dictactor who was allowing civil war, rape, and genocide to take place. It was incredible, but only happened because the women put aside their difference and worked together. Is that wrong?
James, that is the type of attitude that presents a negative image of Christianity to other cultures. I realize you probably don’t mean it in this way, but it comes off sounding like “I don’t think you are dumb or evil, but what you believe in is completely wrong.”
If that is your honest belief I understand that this post will in no way change your mind, however I thought it might be helpful for you to see what that looks like from an “interfaith” perspective.
Ryan, I can’t say I am concerned with what it looks like from an interfaith perspective. I care what it looks like from God’s perspective, and He has made it clear that there is one way–Jesus–and all other ways lead to something other than Him.
I realize you see it differently, and I respect your right to post that opinion here. Just like I posted mine.
Emily, I have to give you an honest answer. And honestly, I am torn about that. One side of me knows that if you give people some relief from oppression or suffering, you have done a good thing. Another side of me knows that without Jesus, the people you have just helped are only being helped temporarily. I don’t profess to have an answer to this dilemma, and I do participate in making the lives of people better in various ways. So I’m not letting the fact that I am torn about your question keep me from actually doing anything. But I don’t see it quite as clearly as you do.
James,
Do you think it’s possible to uphold the exclusive truth claims of Christianity and still find things to appreciate and respect in other religions?
Larry, it’s a valid question, and I answer you with two disclaimers:
1. I don’t profess to have it all figured out. I’m growing, just like anyone else, and could have a different opinion later on in life;
2. My answer is not meant to sound as legalistic, Phariseeical, reactionary, or bigoted as it probably is going to sound. I assure you I have thought and prayed about this for decades.
My answer is that it is not surprising that other religions have some elements of truth to them. If I were Satan, I would (a) initiate false beliefs which would lead people away from salvation which comes through Jesus alone; and (b) I would make sure those false religions had many appealing qualities and partial truths in them.
People are wired to worship. All humans have it in them to do so. This is one of those facts that science and religion agree on. (Wish I could remember the name of that one book, but I’m drawing a blank). Satan, who is every bit as real as the bible says he is, knows this and exploits it by providing alternatives which lead people away from Jesus and, by extension, away from God.
So yes, other belief systems do contain elements of truth, and their followers can accomplish good things. And IMO, it’s by design.
Larry, I just re-read your question and would like to offer an answer more in line with your wording, specifically in the last clause. I do respect the people who follow other religions. I cannot respect the religions themselves. I can’t respect something that will send someone to Hell for eternity, even if it does offer them some comfort in this life. Such comfort is ultimately temporary, whereas one’s eternal destination is, well, eternal.
Like I said, this wouldn’t keep me from joining a multifaith effort to feed the poor or offer some other sort of help.
Like I said, it’s complicated. What I do see more and more of these days is an attitude toward Christianity and other faiths not unlike, say, if they were different political parties. You vote your way and I’ll vote mine, and we’ll both know that the Democrats, Republicans, and Libertarians each have some valid things to offer. But Christianity isn’t a political party. Faith in Jesus isn’t just another of many possible belief systems. It’s the truth. It’s the only answer for a fallen world. It’s the only way for fallen individuals to get right with God.
Anyway, the more I read the original post, the more I realize this should be more about cooperation between Christians with different theological perspectives, not different religions. So my apologies for the derail.
Bravo, bravo.
10, 10, 10. Gold medal too.
There are also ways to handle stronger beliefs. I have a friend that is very passionate about his political party’s beliefs and I feel I get his grievances there. I won’t be God’s voice in his life but we can share what may work better as he has had his problems there with the agressive comments he gets from the other side (his comments can get quite aggressive too and put other’s on the defensive). Not that I am perfect either but even I have had to say, “I love you dearly but please don’t send me anymore of those comments because they are hurtful to me.”
May help at times to tell the other side why it is such a grievious thing for us instead of attacking their beliefs. Most of us can relate to deeper concerns in that sense and it can help others see it with more compassion and respect.
Either way, some people won’t see eye to eye with us, even at that deeper level. We shouldn’t force our views and opinions on each other. Some plant, some water, but it is God that makes the seed grow.
I see it similar to scratching the surface of an issue with us. Sometimes things bother us and we can waste much time and energy trying to deal with the smaller manifestations of the issue instead of getting to the heart of it. Like plucking the leaves of a weed instead of getting to the root of it. It would do good to take a time out and say, “What is really bothering me about this?”
Anyway, good stuff and great point.
Love in Him,
Jo
And thanks for this post Richard. I was more familiar with Bonhoeffer’s contributions than his peers.
For Emily:
There is an author I really like who posted this a couple of weeks ago right before Christmas. He said it quite well:
==================
Social concern …will not work. This is not the message of Christmas.
God didn’t offer the shepherds a grant for their micro economics. He didn’t offer the little outcast family an apartment.
He offered them a savior. He offered them himself. And with him, a kingdom.
There is simply no other way to save this weary, unraveling world.
Now here is my concern – it is easier to offer social consciousness and environmental responsibility than it is to offer Jesus. I am much more inclined to offer my neighbor a helping hand than tell him he needs Jesus Christ. When I get to chatting with strangers, I’d much rather they know I give to support AIDS relief in Africa than that I am a Christian author. Social concern is cool; Jesus is majorly disruptive.
Now the socially concerned are mad at me. “The Bible commands us to care for the earth! To care for the poor and the oppressed!” Yes, it does. But let me ask: What is the unique contribution of Christianity to this weary world?
It is obviously not social concern.
It is Jesus and his kingdom.
That is why the old hymn says, “Joy to the world! The Lord is come! Let earth receive her King.” No receiving of the King, no joy for the world. Now, of course we offer help. Of course we lend a hand. But Jesus said that cup of cold water is offered “in My name.” Without Jesus, social concern will not rescue this unraveling world, for it cannot address this barrenness of spirit. As C.S. Lewis said, “God cannot give us happiness apart from himself because it does not exist. There is no such thing.”
Think again about the gift in the manger. God saw what the world most desperately needed, and what he chose to give us was…Himself. To care for the world is to offer Jesus Christ. This is the message of Christmas. “Let every heart, prepare him room.” Then heaven and nature will sing. Then will break the new and glorious morn. O, may it come.
James,
While I respect your opinion and what you are saying, I have to disagree 100%. Like you, I take the Bible seriously, and like you, I believe that Christ is the one and only way to true salvation, but, unlike you, I do not think that all that requires us as Christians to do is “spread the Gospel” and that feeding the poor and social justice is “bad.” That’s not only proposterous, it’s un-Biblical.
The Bible is clear that God doesn’t just urge, but DEMANDS social action from us, and He is straightforward about this not only being the telling of the gospel, but also feeding, caring,and giving money to the poor. It’s all fine and dandy to say, “Joy to the World” but if someone is starving and we don’t help them, what kind of witness is that giving?
Here are some of the verses that personally convict me to get involved in social justice;
James 2:15-17
15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
Deut 15:7. “If there is a poor man among you, one of your brothers, in any of the towns of the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand to your poor brother; but you shall freely open your hand to him, and generously lend him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks.”
Ezekiel 16:49-50
“Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.” (Sodom was not destroyed because of sexual sin, it was destroyed because the citizens did not feed the poor)
Matthew 25: 35-45
I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me. Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord when was it that we did these things for you?’ And the king will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.
And, to address what the author said about social concern being wrong if “Jesus name isn’t involved”, I again have to say no. If the only organazation or people who are doing action to help the poor are secular, or of another faith, and the options are rejecting this help or accepting it, I truly do not think Jesus would say, “No, I don’t want a clean water well put in that village by those Buddhists, those people can suffer until a Christian comes along.” That does not sound like Christ to me. The verses above don’t tack on, “then share the gospel” because helping the poor IS the gospel. It’s not words, it’s action, and that’s what matters.
Emily, as always, you know how to share your disagreements with dignity and without making the other person feeling small. A lot of people can learn a lot from you.
I want to address one thing you said, not to argue, but to clarify because I think you misunderstood my position somewhat. You said:
“but, unlike you, I do not think that all that requires us as Christians to do is “spread the Gospel” and that feeding the poor and social justice is “bad.” That’s not only proposterous, it’s un-Biblical.”
If I would have said that, it would be unbiblical. But I never said social justice was bad. I said just the opposite, actually. I only said that (a) it isn’t enough (because it’s temporary); and that (b)I am torn about doing it alongside ministries from non-Christian faiths. Not against it. Torn.
Gotcha, I misread. And thanks. I understand how you could be torn by that, but I’d seriously ask you to go to scripture over it. If you can find verses that say something to back up what that author (who was it by the way?) was claiming (social justice without Jesus=bad) then I’d definitley like to see them.
I’ve said it before but I’m a firm believer in the “all truth is God’s truth” theory and that God is big enough to not be threatened when people call good actions by the wrong name. Just because a Mormon or a Hindu or whatever might be doing some good for the wrong reason, (in my view) that doesn’t negate the good that was done.
An interesting article, and an even more interesting discussion to be found below. I love this website.
Although I agree in essence to what is being put forth in Dahlstrom’s article I find myself wondering if ecumenism is what was happening between Bonhoeffer and the German monastery. It is easy to see denominations as things that separate us, and when you look at it that way it becomes true. I think the unity of the church is much larger than that. It would be great if we were all in agreement on things like Christology,and Soteriology but while we are not all presently in agreement we would do each other no good at all if we didn’t question the things we thought to be outside the teaching of the Bible. The issues between Protestantism, and Catholicism are important, as are those between Emergents, and Evangelicals. We’re debating theology here, not worship songs.
Thought I was done for the day when I opened up this email from a friend. Anyway, not to beat a dead horse (not that he would feel it) or revive that conversation but just sharing and offering something that may echo at heart what I think you may be getting at James so this one is for you. Whether one agrees with every word I personally don’t think is that revelant, but hey, I could be wrong. I know, hard to believe but it has happened before.
Just kidding. Just kidding!
See below:
Jesus Christ – ‘two most explosive words in English language’
Fox News analyst Brit Hume says he doesn’t regret urging Tiger Woods to become a Christian so the golfer can find forgiveness for marital infidelity. Hume told CBN News that “Christianity is a religion for sinners — and I think that Tiger Woods has an opportunity here, and my prayer would be that he would take it.” Hume has been renounced for saying that he doesn’t think the famous golfer’s belief in Buddhism “offers the kind of forgiveness and redemption that is offered by the Christian faith.”
He recognizes that openly expressing faith in Jesus Christ offends a lot of people. “People rage about this,” he said. “It’s very offensive to those who don’t share the faith, [and] it’s offensive to some people who claim they do share the faith. This is to be expected, and it has been happening to people who proclaim their faith in Christ for as long as anybody can remember — this is part of the deal.”
Hume described how he became a Christian. “Eleven years ago, my son committed suicide,” he shared. “And as you can imagine, it was absolutely devastating. And yet throughout that whole horrible time, I had this sense that God was there for me, that he would rescue me, that he would save me — and he did.”
The news analyst said he was deeply moved by the hundreds of letters of condolence he received after that tragedy. “I felt that I was seeing in them the face of God,” he recalled, “and I felt that it was time for me now to face up to the Christian faith which I purported to belong to, and try to face up to the implications of what I purported to believe — and I’ve been trying ever since.”
—I have a friend that per his marriage had converted to Buddism. I haven’t seen him in awhile but when sharing I personally did not feel that I should attack his beliefs there (not saying anyone is doing that) but just share my faith in Jesus and I showed interest in his religious beliefs for other religions do interest me to a degree. I like to know what people believe and why they have opted for their beliefs, even as I don’t see them as the answer. Not only that but as a friend I love and care about I am interested in his life.
Anyway, the last indepth discussion we had regarding our faith he mentioned that his mom, who had passed, was a believer in faith in Christ and he used to be too and it seemed like he was reconsidering his choice of choosing another religion.
Have you all seen “The Big Kahuna” movie. I saw a good portion of it the other day and there was much discussion about Jesus in it. Kevin Spacey, whose acting I love, is in it and he is awesome as usual. Danny Devito and the other fellow were very good too. Anyway, I am hoping to rent soon so that I can see it all. I thought it may be some lame comedy (can be hard to find a good one) but started to watch as I love Kevin and glad I stayed with it. It is indepth and good, the good portion I saw.
Here is a scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PkOc-B64dY
I have to say that from the portion of the movie I saw, I see truth and wonderful things in what the kid was looking to do and in what Devito said in this clip too. I don’t feel our limitations should stop us in spreading the good news found in Jesus. God is not limited by our limitations, but again, see some revelant things in what Devito shared too.
Love in Him,
Jo
I don’t think the way Jesus wants up to bring the gospel with someone is on national television, after publicly bringing up their sins to an audience, when the person isn’t even there.
Emily, in the context of the conversation, I think Hume’s remark was right on.
One more. One more! Really, think I will be done after this one.
I think one can appreciate more that prior clip I posted from the movie in vew of the other prior consecutive ones (posted below). Like I said, I saw good points in all three perspective and feel with how the movie ended, it probably showed how Spacey and the younger guy made peace with their differences, and maybe even benefitted some from each other there. Devito seemed to have had that already.
Very impressed too with the acting. Spacey is awesome in his role, yet Devito and the other guy held their own very well by him. I’ve never seen Devito any better than in this role.
From what I saw of the movie, the younger guy did appear to show interest in the big Kahuna’s life and from what he said just took the opportunity to share his faith in Jesus. I felt he did show honest and sincere interest in the big Kahuna’s life and what he had to share regarding it. Yet I can relate to Spacey too. In the past with the previous owner at my place of employment I used to step in on temporary General Manager assignment while he was between GMs. During one such time myself and another Christian had a similar discussion. If I recall correctly, I addressed the issue of dispensing charity to customers at the owner’s expense. I got a comment back that implied I wasn’t being Christianly. I felt that looking down and was also angered by what I saw as not seeing things from the owner’s perspective. And my comment was, “This is business…” also elaborating on not ignoring the owner’s instructions and goals. I had no problems with them taking their own finances to aid others and even speaking of Jesus if others were open to it (I’ve done the same) but felt they were wrong in ignoring the owner’s specific instructions in other areas, especially since it was his finances.
Anyway, in my view I think the younger guy could have spoken of Jesus while also sharing why he was sent there. He could have told the big Kahuna that he was concerned that he would just see his sharing Jesus as a means to win his business but he honestly cared about him so that wasn’t the case, and just left their card if he wanted to pursue the topic of business further, as Devito and Spacey wanted him to do (that is all they finally agreed on doing if I recollect correctly). Seemed they all knew the big Kahuna wasn’t interested in business at that time in his life but Devito and Spacey were hoping to peak his interest there anyway, as they were sent to do.
I’m big on honest communication as I feel it can help in doing away with assumptions that can get bent all out of shape.
Again, from what I saw of the movie I thought it was a wonderful exploration regarding sharing the gospel and other things around the topic of religion, God, and priorities. I’m looking forward to seeing the whole movie.
Let me know if it was a derailing and not appreciated. Still find “short” challenging but I can put it away if not appreciated because to me that would be the bigger issue, how open others are to it and how beneficial they find it.
Anyway, below are the consecutive scenes. Grab the popcorn and settle in. Don’t you just love youtube?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94XTIIgChj8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-TV3JNPpCE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_43bczYDhY&feature=related
Enjoy!
Jo
Good article Richard