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	<title>Comments on: Chris Tomlin or the Gospel: A Plea to Quit Worshipping Worshippers</title>
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	<link>http://burnsidewriters.com/2010/01/13/chris-tomlin-or-the-gospel-a-plea-to-quit-worshipping-worshippers/</link>
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		<title>By: &#8220;i am free&#8221; &#171; chewdacud</title>
		<link>http://burnsidewriters.com/2010/01/13/chris-tomlin-or-the-gospel-a-plea-to-quit-worshipping-worshippers/comment-page-1/#comment-14292</link>
		<dc:creator>&#8220;i am free&#8221; &#171; chewdacud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 06:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=8450#comment-14292</guid>
		<description>[...] in a huge theater, surrounded by more &#8217;shallow worshippers&#8217; excited to be there because Chris Tomlin was performing.&#8221; I thought about it for about 10 seconds and gave [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in a huge theater, surrounded by more &#8217;shallow worshippers&#8217; excited to be there because Chris Tomlin was performing.&#8221; I thought about it for about 10 seconds and gave [...]</p>
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		<title>By: karen swank</title>
		<link>http://burnsidewriters.com/2010/01/13/chris-tomlin-or-the-gospel-a-plea-to-quit-worshipping-worshippers/comment-page-1/#comment-14291</link>
		<dc:creator>karen swank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 02:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=8450#comment-14291</guid>
		<description>The way I relate to what you are saying here is this:  I teach (youth groups and Sunday School) 3 times a week and also occasionally speak to organizations on faith issues.  When I feel like I&#039;ve served well is when people talk about &quot;wow, God!&quot; issues afterward or just want to talk more about their own faith/journey issues.  When I feel like a colossal, abysmal failure is when people pat me on the back and tell me what a &quot;nice job&quot; I did or what a &quot;great person&quot; I am.

The focus should be on the Lord, and on the message, not the messenger.  I don&#039;t really read you as a Pharisee here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way I relate to what you are saying here is this:  I teach (youth groups and Sunday School) 3 times a week and also occasionally speak to organizations on faith issues.  When I feel like I&#8217;ve served well is when people talk about &#8220;wow, God!&#8221; issues afterward or just want to talk more about their own faith/journey issues.  When I feel like a colossal, abysmal failure is when people pat me on the back and tell me what a &#8220;nice job&#8221; I did or what a &#8220;great person&#8221; I am.</p>
<p>The focus should be on the Lord, and on the message, not the messenger.  I don&#8217;t really read you as a Pharisee here.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://burnsidewriters.com/2010/01/13/chris-tomlin-or-the-gospel-a-plea-to-quit-worshipping-worshippers/comment-page-1/#comment-14260</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=8450#comment-14260</guid>
		<description>Chris Tomlin is incredible at what he does. Its God who does the real work during the worship time. I remember how close to God I felt when I worshiped at Creation East. I worked as a volunteer and it was really sad to see people really get caught up in the lights and sound and product they buy when it comes to that kind of commercialized worship setting. It makes me really treasure the worship time I get to have at my church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris Tomlin is incredible at what he does. Its God who does the real work during the worship time. I remember how close to God I felt when I worshiped at Creation East. I worked as a volunteer and it was really sad to see people really get caught up in the lights and sound and product they buy when it comes to that kind of commercialized worship setting. It makes me really treasure the worship time I get to have at my church.</p>
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		<title>By: Russ Masterson</title>
		<link>http://burnsidewriters.com/2010/01/13/chris-tomlin-or-the-gospel-a-plea-to-quit-worshipping-worshippers/comment-page-1/#comment-14210</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ Masterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 23:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=8450#comment-14210</guid>
		<description>Man, these are great thoughts. Thanks to each of you for adding to the conversation. From reading through I think it&#039;s safe to say we all agree the gospel is wonderful, even if you didn&#039;t like my article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man, these are great thoughts. Thanks to each of you for adding to the conversation. From reading through I think it&#8217;s safe to say we all agree the gospel is wonderful, even if you didn&#8217;t like my article.</p>
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		<title>By: Slider</title>
		<link>http://burnsidewriters.com/2010/01/13/chris-tomlin-or-the-gospel-a-plea-to-quit-worshipping-worshippers/comment-page-1/#comment-14192</link>
		<dc:creator>Slider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 05:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=8450#comment-14192</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s difficult to understand the reaction unless you&#039;re a worship leader. The shear creative genius of an artist can be rather overwhelming to another artist. As a worship leader I integrated many of Tomlins songs into our churches services and came to appreciate not only his songs, but also the giftedness of the man. When I had the chance to personally witness a &quot;concert&quot; it was surreal and as I stated before very overwhelming and I&#039;m sure my reaction would not have been the same had it been another artist covering his song. Worship no, appreciation--without question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s difficult to understand the reaction unless you&#8217;re a worship leader. The shear creative genius of an artist can be rather overwhelming to another artist. As a worship leader I integrated many of Tomlins songs into our churches services and came to appreciate not only his songs, but also the giftedness of the man. When I had the chance to personally witness a &#8220;concert&#8221; it was surreal and as I stated before very overwhelming and I&#8217;m sure my reaction would not have been the same had it been another artist covering his song. Worship no, appreciation&#8211;without question.</p>
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		<title>By: Jo</title>
		<link>http://burnsidewriters.com/2010/01/13/chris-tomlin-or-the-gospel-a-plea-to-quit-worshipping-worshippers/comment-page-1/#comment-14190</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 01:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=8450#comment-14190</guid>
		<description>Want to say one last thing here before I go on a break.  Yes, taking a break.  Getting behind on some things closer to home while having a long stretch at work, amongst my responsibility as a moderator elsewhere.  

I know, I know, very sad.  Please, no tears.  No tears!  I will be back, God willing.  Seriously, I can go for a long stretch then need a break to re-engergize and such and although the rest of what I said is true too, that is more my reason.   

Anyway, in my previous post here I forgot to say why my sis&#039; discovery of this church and the things with their youth group was so miraculous.  Things have been hard for her, to say the very least, as I feel anyone that has a child diagnosed with autism can relate.  And what I love about her is that in her difficulties she sees the hand of God working in their lives in those little things that we tend to miss and take for granted.  

She has wanted to get more involved again with the body of Christ, and help her daughters there too, yet with her situation it has been challenging.  With everything this church offers it appears to fit in miraculously with what she needed and now both her daughters have made some wonderful friends.  This has given her much joy, especially for her the one because her social skills has made it challenging for her in that sense.  

Anyway, I think she is a great kid and when I look at her I just see someone who is wired differently than a good deal of us so have learned to adapt to how she processes information and such.  But as my sister says, &quot;I am blessed too because other parents&#039; kids are not high functioning and they got some other real challenges that I don&#039;t so I don&#039;t take lightly theirs and when other teachers and doctors take my child as an example I try to tell them that so they don&#039;t do the same.&quot;  Yet I also know that high functioning comes with its own unique set of challenges. 

Anyway, thought that was an important element I hadn&#039;t elaborated on.  Just another side of the story regarding some things I mentioned, hopefully without dismissing some errors that exist too.  

Sometimes I feel like a salmon swimming against the current but I don&#039;t doubt God uses these things in my life and others&#039; lives, as long as we understand we need to all be rooted in Jesus.  As a believer it is ok to swim against the current (unless God says stop because we have left the more essentials behind), as long as we are coming from being rooted in Jesus and understanding that He is the Way, the Truth, the Life and Light (and don&#039;t forget the progressive journey).  There are preferences and things that may work more for us personally for whatever reason but when we are in danger of making them the way and endorsing them over Jesus, then God will at times bring in diversity and look to change the landscape to get us back in Christ.  For me too.  

Thanks and thus far it has been wonderful, even if a little hairly at times.  

RUSS! Did you hear me yell for ya?  Hopefully I didn&#039;t derail your article too much.  I enjoyed it and get it.  I feel the same way too when I go into a place and people quote a pastor or speaker often.  I quote at times too but talking when it seems they do it more than what the Lord said.  I want to say, &quot;But what did Jesus say?  Is that what the Lord told you personally?&quot;  I mean I get that but wonder if they are just buying into because someone said so.  

Adios for now.  No tears.  No tears! Just need to get through this week.  

Love in Him,
Jo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Want to say one last thing here before I go on a break.  Yes, taking a break.  Getting behind on some things closer to home while having a long stretch at work, amongst my responsibility as a moderator elsewhere.  </p>
<p>I know, I know, very sad.  Please, no tears.  No tears!  I will be back, God willing.  Seriously, I can go for a long stretch then need a break to re-engergize and such and although the rest of what I said is true too, that is more my reason.   </p>
<p>Anyway, in my previous post here I forgot to say why my sis&#8217; discovery of this church and the things with their youth group was so miraculous.  Things have been hard for her, to say the very least, as I feel anyone that has a child diagnosed with autism can relate.  And what I love about her is that in her difficulties she sees the hand of God working in their lives in those little things that we tend to miss and take for granted.  </p>
<p>She has wanted to get more involved again with the body of Christ, and help her daughters there too, yet with her situation it has been challenging.  With everything this church offers it appears to fit in miraculously with what she needed and now both her daughters have made some wonderful friends.  This has given her much joy, especially for her the one because her social skills has made it challenging for her in that sense.  </p>
<p>Anyway, I think she is a great kid and when I look at her I just see someone who is wired differently than a good deal of us so have learned to adapt to how she processes information and such.  But as my sister says, &#8220;I am blessed too because other parents&#8217; kids are not high functioning and they got some other real challenges that I don&#8217;t so I don&#8217;t take lightly theirs and when other teachers and doctors take my child as an example I try to tell them that so they don&#8217;t do the same.&#8221;  Yet I also know that high functioning comes with its own unique set of challenges. </p>
<p>Anyway, thought that was an important element I hadn&#8217;t elaborated on.  Just another side of the story regarding some things I mentioned, hopefully without dismissing some errors that exist too.  </p>
<p>Sometimes I feel like a salmon swimming against the current but I don&#8217;t doubt God uses these things in my life and others&#8217; lives, as long as we understand we need to all be rooted in Jesus.  As a believer it is ok to swim against the current (unless God says stop because we have left the more essentials behind), as long as we are coming from being rooted in Jesus and understanding that He is the Way, the Truth, the Life and Light (and don&#8217;t forget the progressive journey).  There are preferences and things that may work more for us personally for whatever reason but when we are in danger of making them the way and endorsing them over Jesus, then God will at times bring in diversity and look to change the landscape to get us back in Christ.  For me too.  </p>
<p>Thanks and thus far it has been wonderful, even if a little hairly at times.  </p>
<p>RUSS! Did you hear me yell for ya?  Hopefully I didn&#8217;t derail your article too much.  I enjoyed it and get it.  I feel the same way too when I go into a place and people quote a pastor or speaker often.  I quote at times too but talking when it seems they do it more than what the Lord said.  I want to say, &#8220;But what did Jesus say?  Is that what the Lord told you personally?&#8221;  I mean I get that but wonder if they are just buying into because someone said so.  </p>
<p>Adios for now.  No tears.  No tears! Just need to get through this week.  </p>
<p>Love in Him,<br />
Jo</p>
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		<title>By: Jo</title>
		<link>http://burnsidewriters.com/2010/01/13/chris-tomlin-or-the-gospel-a-plea-to-quit-worshipping-worshippers/comment-page-1/#comment-14183</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 19:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=8450#comment-14183</guid>
		<description>Enjoying the continuing discussion.  I think all made valid points and think it may just come down to our personal convictions as the Lord would reveal to us.  

I remember one time trying to get into more soft music like Michael W Smith.  I would jam with Salvador and other artist with more upbeat contemporary music.  Seeing how others got into the softer stuff and worship and hearing similar things about it being a rendition of the world I felt I should try and get into the softer stuff.  It didn&#039;t do it for me.  More brought me to a low.  Then I felt as if God were telling me to just go with what does it for me.  That if Salvador&#039;s music made me happy and I could praise the Lord with it and such, to continue.  So I put the softer stuff away that didn&#039;t do it for me and returned to the upbeat music.  

I will say now that I love the softer stuff, and love Michael&#039;s music.  He has some awesome songs that really do it for me now, yet I still enjoy more upbeat stuff too.  Think this falls in line with the progressive journey.  

I&#039;ve heard criticism too with how the church commercializes to cater to the youth.  Although at times that may be negative, I have a different view.  For instance, my niece was diagnosed with autism at a very young age.  Even though she has her challenges, she, thank God, with much prayer and therapy is doing aweseome, is very intelligent, in a public school (although believe she is still accompanied by an aid) and speaks.  She is what they term as &quot;high functioning.  Her challenges now are more along the lines of social skills and her senstivity level.  I did feel God confirmed to me that her sensitivity level is high as I saw these veins like nerve endings coming from her head.  Thus, monitoring what she watches, and teaching her in that sense is important.  

Anyway, I still remember sis&#039; call when she discovered the church she attends now.  She said, &quot;I never seen anything like this.  The youth group is awesome.  It is like going into a rock concert and them kids can worship.&quot;  The impression I got was not that they are just making alot of noise but worshipping.  Then she tells me about this awesome gameroom they have and the story was very touching.  How afterwards they went in there and how her daughter loved it and she was astonished that they had a game in there that her daughter loves but is hard to find in other places.  It was like she felt it was a sign.  You would have had to hear her tell the story of that night.  Don&#039;t think my words do it justice.  

She has since said her daughter always goes to the alter and she cries and when she returns to her mom asks her mom why is she crying.  My sis tells her because the presence of the Lord is very beautiful and moves us.  

Anyway, that&#039;s just one story of other marvelous ones.  

I do believe you can have both.  I think the problem lies more when we make it more about entertainment than the gospel.  I don&#039;t know if this is comparing apples to oranges and maybe it is yet will share anyway.  Signs and wonders have accompanied some operating under the power of God.  There are giftings too, healings and more.  These things should lead us to the Source.  As with anything, we can get lost in the glitter rather than Jesus.  Even so, I know Jesus did not come with outward beauty that we would desire Him for such for real beauty is derived from his essense within.

Can we get the youth to see the beauty in Jesus without all the spectacle?  Sure.  I just feel as youth, and even us older folks, enjoy things that minister to our souls too, it just needs to be rooted in Jesus.  

Wonderful discussion.
Love in Him,
Jo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enjoying the continuing discussion.  I think all made valid points and think it may just come down to our personal convictions as the Lord would reveal to us.  </p>
<p>I remember one time trying to get into more soft music like Michael W Smith.  I would jam with Salvador and other artist with more upbeat contemporary music.  Seeing how others got into the softer stuff and worship and hearing similar things about it being a rendition of the world I felt I should try and get into the softer stuff.  It didn&#8217;t do it for me.  More brought me to a low.  Then I felt as if God were telling me to just go with what does it for me.  That if Salvador&#8217;s music made me happy and I could praise the Lord with it and such, to continue.  So I put the softer stuff away that didn&#8217;t do it for me and returned to the upbeat music.  </p>
<p>I will say now that I love the softer stuff, and love Michael&#8217;s music.  He has some awesome songs that really do it for me now, yet I still enjoy more upbeat stuff too.  Think this falls in line with the progressive journey.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard criticism too with how the church commercializes to cater to the youth.  Although at times that may be negative, I have a different view.  For instance, my niece was diagnosed with autism at a very young age.  Even though she has her challenges, she, thank God, with much prayer and therapy is doing aweseome, is very intelligent, in a public school (although believe she is still accompanied by an aid) and speaks.  She is what they term as &#8220;high functioning.  Her challenges now are more along the lines of social skills and her senstivity level.  I did feel God confirmed to me that her sensitivity level is high as I saw these veins like nerve endings coming from her head.  Thus, monitoring what she watches, and teaching her in that sense is important.  </p>
<p>Anyway, I still remember sis&#8217; call when she discovered the church she attends now.  She said, &#8220;I never seen anything like this.  The youth group is awesome.  It is like going into a rock concert and them kids can worship.&#8221;  The impression I got was not that they are just making alot of noise but worshipping.  Then she tells me about this awesome gameroom they have and the story was very touching.  How afterwards they went in there and how her daughter loved it and she was astonished that they had a game in there that her daughter loves but is hard to find in other places.  It was like she felt it was a sign.  You would have had to hear her tell the story of that night.  Don&#8217;t think my words do it justice.  </p>
<p>She has since said her daughter always goes to the alter and she cries and when she returns to her mom asks her mom why is she crying.  My sis tells her because the presence of the Lord is very beautiful and moves us.  </p>
<p>Anyway, that&#8217;s just one story of other marvelous ones.  </p>
<p>I do believe you can have both.  I think the problem lies more when we make it more about entertainment than the gospel.  I don&#8217;t know if this is comparing apples to oranges and maybe it is yet will share anyway.  Signs and wonders have accompanied some operating under the power of God.  There are giftings too, healings and more.  These things should lead us to the Source.  As with anything, we can get lost in the glitter rather than Jesus.  Even so, I know Jesus did not come with outward beauty that we would desire Him for such for real beauty is derived from his essense within.</p>
<p>Can we get the youth to see the beauty in Jesus without all the spectacle?  Sure.  I just feel as youth, and even us older folks, enjoy things that minister to our souls too, it just needs to be rooted in Jesus.  </p>
<p>Wonderful discussion.<br />
Love in Him,<br />
Jo</p>
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		<title>By: Fortuitous Bouncing &#171; Man of Depravity</title>
		<link>http://burnsidewriters.com/2010/01/13/chris-tomlin-or-the-gospel-a-plea-to-quit-worshipping-worshippers/comment-page-1/#comment-14182</link>
		<dc:creator>Fortuitous Bouncing &#171; Man of Depravity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 18:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=8450#comment-14182</guid>
		<description>[...] A plea to quit worshiping the worshipers. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A plea to quit worshiping the worshipers. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly</title>
		<link>http://burnsidewriters.com/2010/01/13/chris-tomlin-or-the-gospel-a-plea-to-quit-worshipping-worshippers/comment-page-1/#comment-14174</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 03:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=8450#comment-14174</guid>
		<description>I see where you all are coming from in that noticing who is on stage does not equal worship but i dont really think that Russ thinks it is, either. The thing is, when we are really swept away by the truth of the gospel as was presented in the song Chris was singing, its disturbing to hear anyone bring attention to anything other than that truth in that moment. Had the guy had made that comment right at the beginning of the concert, Russ&#039;s response would have likely have been different. 
I find myself in similar situations sometimes at church when i&#039;m totally engrossed in worship and a friend next to me who&#039;s mind is elsewhere interrupts to say some remark about nothing in particular and i find myself getting aggravated. Why are they not equally as engrossed? Why did they not notice how much i was enjoying the time with the Lord and WHY did they disrupt that?!
My point is, i think its the context of the situation that makes comments like &quot;look, its chris tomlin&quot; seem bothersome. But honestly, it is only one example of how we do really focus so much on the &quot;entertainer&quot; (aka worship leader). Its a lack of spiritual maturity when that is the focus though, and something to be sad for that the person is missing the point. But yes, it also fuels a righteous anger.
I like it. Good article. The discussions its brought about is great.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see where you all are coming from in that noticing who is on stage does not equal worship but i dont really think that Russ thinks it is, either. The thing is, when we are really swept away by the truth of the gospel as was presented in the song Chris was singing, its disturbing to hear anyone bring attention to anything other than that truth in that moment. Had the guy had made that comment right at the beginning of the concert, Russ&#8217;s response would have likely have been different.<br />
I find myself in similar situations sometimes at church when i&#8217;m totally engrossed in worship and a friend next to me who&#8217;s mind is elsewhere interrupts to say some remark about nothing in particular and i find myself getting aggravated. Why are they not equally as engrossed? Why did they not notice how much i was enjoying the time with the Lord and WHY did they disrupt that?!<br />
My point is, i think its the context of the situation that makes comments like &#8220;look, its chris tomlin&#8221; seem bothersome. But honestly, it is only one example of how we do really focus so much on the &#8220;entertainer&#8221; (aka worship leader). Its a lack of spiritual maturity when that is the focus though, and something to be sad for that the person is missing the point. But yes, it also fuels a righteous anger.<br />
I like it. Good article. The discussions its brought about is great.</p>
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		<title>By: JamesW</title>
		<link>http://burnsidewriters.com/2010/01/13/chris-tomlin-or-the-gospel-a-plea-to-quit-worshipping-worshippers/comment-page-1/#comment-14173</link>
		<dc:creator>JamesW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 02:39:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=8450#comment-14173</guid>
		<description>I agree with you that idolizing entertainers is a huge problem with all Americans, Christian or not. I just don&#039;t see how this event (noticing who&#039;s on stage) comes even close to worshipping him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you that idolizing entertainers is a huge problem with all Americans, Christian or not. I just don&#8217;t see how this event (noticing who&#8217;s on stage) comes even close to worshipping him.</p>
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