Comments on: Who Would Jesus Beat Down?

By: Buy HDTV

Buy HDTV — Tue, 30 Mar 2010 20:25:20 +0000

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By: Ryan Jones

Ryan Jones — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:02:32 +0000

Larry, I think the most brilliant point in your post is where you bring out the analogy of martial arts to disciplined living. When I studied martial arts my teacher (who was a full-time martial artist) taught us that the path to black-belt was a journey that would take five or more years and only after that point would we be ready for the “real” training. I only stuck with it for about two years, but in that time he did give me glimpses into what awaits those who mastered the basics. He taught his advanced students more spiritual disciplines of meditation, and I saw on many occasions that he taught them more about how to not move when all he would teach us “beginners” was how to move properly.

I never became proficient at martial arts, but I did gain a respect for it beyond sport. I learned that at the core it is about discipline: mental, emotional, and physical. For many people, particularly in the past, self-defense and combat proficiency were powerful motivators to learn discipline. That isn’t so much the case in the Midwest, but the lessons are still available through the martial arts for those willing to learn. If we are to follow the pattern that Jesus laid out for us we must be come disciplined (Disciples) before we can be teachers (Apostles).

Thanks for the article and the perspective.

By: Jim Barringer

Jim Barringer — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:18:52 +0000

The Bible wouldn’t take pacifism to that extent either. Exodus 22:2: “”If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed.” Pretty straightforward.

My position on war comes from applying this idea to our military as well. Most people say I’m a pacifist, but I don’t oppose war in general; I would support using our military to defend an invasion of “our house.” But when we send our troops halfway across the world to someone else’s “house,” well, that’s obviously murder and I can’t support it. Same would apply to defense/aggressiveness in hand-to-hand combat, I would think.

Great article, Larry. I like your insights.

By: Larry Shallenberger

Larry Shallenberger — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:27:11 +0000

I couldn’t take pacifism to that extent either.

By: Larry Shallenberger

Larry Shallenberger — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:22:15 +0000

Matticus, I think there is squeemishness. But I also think that the debate is analogous to the “just war” debate on a personal level.

By: matticus

matticus — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:48:18 +0000

I may be biased here as I was a classical Italian fencer before I became a Christian, and a student of Krev Maga (Israeli Defense System) shortly afterwards. But I think that western Christianity is overly squeamish when it comes to martial arts training. There are people out there whose desire is violence, and solid training ought to eliminate a threat before things get too far out of hand. If somebody is used to communicating through violence (inappropriate as that may be) it serves them right to be met with a responsible/proportionate amount of force. I would even go further out on a limb to say that physical defense is a Godly thing. If an attacker is disabled, then a danger to somebody else may be averted. In that sense, I say that if you’re going to learn a martial discipline, go all the way with it.

By: Beth

Beth — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 06:58:47 +0000

I’m glad you wrote this- I was a bit thrown off by the NYT article, mostly because of the culture war as metaphor issues you mention, and the difficulties reconciling that you seem to have. But I agree with you that Paul does speak often about the physicality of believers, and I like that about Christianity- I wouldn’t have done well with Gnosticism Naturally, I also am a little hesitant to support this because of its function as the men’s ministry of choice at a church; just as I am frustrated by the MOPs groups and quilting circles as the highest profile women’s ministries at churches. I appreciate that you called that out as problematic, too. So thanks for helping me think it through a little further, too. I appreciate it.

By: JamesW

JamesW — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:30:09 +0000

Larry, sorry for the hijack, but I found this and had to post it somewhere. It made me giggle, and it doesn’t fit in with your post, but it fits somewhere in BWC. Thanks for understanding:

http://criggo.com/2010/02/09/paws-in-the-air/

By: billybob

billybob — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:06:13 +0000

This was kind of interesting to just mull over. I was not raised in a Christian home, so the response was, “don’t fight, but if you have to, protect yourself and end it as soon as possible”. Man that could mean a lot of things. When I was in seminary I had a professor who was a serious pacifist, to the point that if someone broke in to his house to rape or murder his family, he would not do anything to jeopardize the life of the assailant. He said he trusted God for the outcome. I couldn’t argue with that, except that, for me, mabye God would use me me to bring about a different outcome. Another one of those interesting “moral” questions.

By: Larry Shallenberger

Larry Shallenberger — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:17:26 +0000

I grew up in a faith tradition where “turning the other check” was interpreted as being relevant in one personal dealings. As a teenager I took it to mean that if I get hit in the locker room that I needed to absorb the punch, stand there, and my restraint would shame there person.

When I read MLK Jr.’s autobiography I came to understand that that tactic could apply to whole people groups.

Connecting that to martial arts– I think as long as it’s kept in the realm of sport its fine. I’m not typing from jail or a hospital, so it’s obvious that I don’t use the discipline to problem solve. It’s the context of the action that determines if Jesus’ ethic is being kept or not.