Comments on: The Bait and Switch of Contemporary Christianity http://burnsidewriters.com/2010/06/10/the-bait-and-switch-of-contemporary-christianity/ Sat, 11 Feb 2012 14:13:04 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: JamesW http://burnsidewriters.com/2010/06/10/the-bait-and-switch-of-contemporary-christianity/comment-page-1/#comment-16959 JamesW Wed, 16 Jun 2010 20:26:30 +0000 http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=10259#comment-16959 Good point. My apologies. Good point. My apologies.

]]> By: Matt Worthington http://burnsidewriters.com/2010/06/10/the-bait-and-switch-of-contemporary-christianity/comment-page-1/#comment-16952 Matt Worthington Wed, 16 Jun 2010 19:08:24 +0000 http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=10259#comment-16952 James, Why are you taking this comment as if it's aimed at you? My apologies for not directly responding to Lisa, but what I had mentioned was something she wrote. You don't have to, nor should you, take my last comment as if it's directed at you. James,

Why are you taking this comment as if it’s aimed at you? My apologies for not directly responding to Lisa, but what I had mentioned was something she wrote. You don’t have to, nor should you, take my last comment as if it’s directed at you.

]]> By: JamesW http://burnsidewriters.com/2010/06/10/the-bait-and-switch-of-contemporary-christianity/comment-page-1/#comment-16943 JamesW Wed, 16 Jun 2010 15:54:06 +0000 http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=10259#comment-16943 Nobody's forsaking anything. I am arguing with the order suggested by Beck. IMO, suggesting that we focus on being good to others before nurturing a relationship with God is in fact, a rejection of God's directives to put God first. Nobody’s forsaking anything. I am arguing with the order suggested by Beck. IMO, suggesting that we focus on being good to others before nurturing a relationship with God is in fact, a rejection of God’s directives to put God first.

]]> By: annie http://burnsidewriters.com/2010/06/10/the-bait-and-switch-of-contemporary-christianity/comment-page-1/#comment-16927 annie Wed, 16 Jun 2010 00:36:25 +0000 http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=10259#comment-16927 It isn't that we didn't get it. As far as I can tell, anyone who was even slightly dissenting here agreed that all the things Dr. Beck mentioned were good things. I don't think anyone called for forsaking any of it. I, and I think we, just wish it had seemed less like a new formula to replace the old one and that what he said more closely and accurately represented what I feel confident he meant. It isn’t that we didn’t get it. As far as I can tell, anyone who was even slightly dissenting here agreed that all the things Dr. Beck mentioned were good things. I don’t think anyone called for forsaking any of it. I, and I think we, just wish it had seemed less like a new formula to replace the old one and that what he said more closely and accurately represented what I feel confident he meant.

]]> By: Matt Worthington http://burnsidewriters.com/2010/06/10/the-bait-and-switch-of-contemporary-christianity/comment-page-1/#comment-16922 Matt Worthington Tue, 15 Jun 2010 19:59:44 +0000 http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=10259#comment-16922 "The rest of the book of Ephesians goes on to talk about how we live out the actions that please Christ in our relationships with our spouses, children and employers (the people we are with everyday!!). Relationships are where we practice what it means to be a follower of Christ. If we seclude or cloister our spirituality to the sacred (prayer, devotion, tithing) but neglect being a good neighbor, we have missed the point." I'm really glad you saw what he's talking about. Action without Faith isn't the goal, but neither is Faith without Action. What is the greatest commandment? Matt 22: Love the Lord your God with all you heart, soul, and mind. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the law and the prophets fall on these two things. How can we forsake any one of these three things? “The rest of the book of Ephesians goes on to talk about how we live out the actions that please Christ in our relationships with our spouses, children and employers (the people we are with everyday!!). Relationships are where we practice what it means to be a follower of Christ. If we seclude or cloister our spirituality to the sacred (prayer, devotion, tithing) but neglect being a good neighbor, we have missed the point.”

I’m really glad you saw what he’s talking about. Action without Faith isn’t the goal, but neither is Faith without Action. What is the greatest commandment?

Matt 22: Love the Lord your God with all you heart, soul, and mind. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the law and the prophets fall on these two things.

How can we forsake any one of these three things?

]]> By: EmilyTimbol http://burnsidewriters.com/2010/06/10/the-bait-and-switch-of-contemporary-christianity/comment-page-1/#comment-16919 EmilyTimbol Tue, 15 Jun 2010 19:35:59 +0000 http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=10259#comment-16919 Yeah you're right James, but you saw exactly where I was going. It's an interesting debate, although I wouldn't say it's without Christ, I'd say it's without Christ coming to people in ways we recognize (since it's impossible to be saved without Christ) but I think we're on the same page. Another time. Yeah you’re right James, but you saw exactly where I was going. It’s an interesting debate, although I wouldn’t say it’s without Christ, I’d say it’s without Christ coming to people in ways we recognize (since it’s impossible to be saved without Christ) but I think we’re on the same page. Another time.

]]> By: JamesW http://burnsidewriters.com/2010/06/10/the-bait-and-switch-of-contemporary-christianity/comment-page-1/#comment-16917 JamesW Tue, 15 Jun 2010 18:55:41 +0000 http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=10259#comment-16917 Emily, the ability to be saved without knowing Christ is a topic worthy of debate, but probably not here. Sorry I mentioned it. I don't want to derail this thing too much. Emily, the ability to be saved without knowing Christ is a topic worthy of debate, but probably not here. Sorry I mentioned it. I don’t want to derail this thing too much.

]]> By: Jesse D http://burnsidewriters.com/2010/06/10/the-bait-and-switch-of-contemporary-christianity/comment-page-1/#comment-16913 Jesse D Tue, 15 Jun 2010 15:50:37 +0000 http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=10259#comment-16913 Can you, as a Christian, begin with anything other than your belief in Christ as a basis for ethics? Sure, people can live morally and have other bases for their moral behavior, but all such bases fall apart when examined. What is the basis for ethics in Buddhism? I don't really know enough about the religion to know. But would it stand up to truth when examined? Is it consistent within its own system? I'd have my doubts. It's not a matter of whether one can live morally without Christianity. It's a matter of whether morality has a real reason for existing outside of Christianity. As Paul said, if the resurrection were not true, we of all men are most to be pitied, and ought to go out and live however we please. Can you, as a Christian, begin with anything other than your belief in Christ as a basis for ethics? Sure, people can live morally and have other bases for their moral behavior, but all such bases fall apart when examined. What is the basis for ethics in Buddhism? I don’t really know enough about the religion to know. But would it stand up to truth when examined? Is it consistent within its own system? I’d have my doubts.

It’s not a matter of whether one can live morally without Christianity. It’s a matter of whether morality has a real reason for existing outside of Christianity. As Paul said, if the resurrection were not true, we of all men are most to be pitied, and ought to go out and live however we please.

]]> By: EmilyTimbol http://burnsidewriters.com/2010/06/10/the-bait-and-switch-of-contemporary-christianity/comment-page-1/#comment-16912 EmilyTimbol Tue, 15 Jun 2010 15:47:41 +0000 http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=10259#comment-16912 James I'll agree with everything you said, except that it's hard for me to blame Buddhism for "sending millions of people to hell" when many, many people who practice it have never heard of Christ or the Judeo-Chrisitan God we know. Is that their fault? James I’ll agree with everything you said, except that it’s hard for me to blame Buddhism for “sending millions of people to hell” when many, many people who practice it have never heard of Christ or the Judeo-Chrisitan God we know. Is that their fault?

]]> By: JamesW http://burnsidewriters.com/2010/06/10/the-bait-and-switch-of-contemporary-christianity/comment-page-1/#comment-16911 JamesW Tue, 15 Jun 2010 15:32:01 +0000 http://burnsidewriters.com/?p=10259#comment-16911 I'd disagree with Jesse's statement, and alter it to say that all ethics start with the God of the bible. Lots of non-Christians are good people, and do good things, but it's because they bear the image of their Creator. BTW, I don't buy the idea that we should somehow respect Buddhism. We absolutely should respect Buddhists, but not Buddhism. How can we respect something that is sending millions of good-intentioned people to Hell? Emily, yes, lots of people are good who are not Christians, but none of us, including Christians, are good enough to meet God's standard. And that's why we need a Savior. But you knew that. I’d disagree with Jesse’s statement, and alter it to say that all ethics start with the God of the bible. Lots of non-Christians are good people, and do good things, but it’s because they bear the image of their Creator.

BTW, I don’t buy the idea that we should somehow respect Buddhism. We absolutely should respect Buddhists, but not Buddhism. How can we respect something that is sending millions of good-intentioned people to Hell?

Emily, yes, lots of people are good who are not Christians, but none of us, including Christians, are good enough to meet God’s standard. And that’s why we need a Savior. But you knew that.

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